Artists working with computation

[Eleanor Dare]

It would be interesting to start a discussion about how computation is being used by book artists. I'm interested in the extent to which book artists engage with computers - how many use programming? Why do many artists (and readers) find digital works somehow unsatsifying? A discussion has started on Micro-pages and it would be good to extend it here as well.

[Abigail Thomas]

see the link for some of the discussion over on Micro-Pages: http://micropages.ning.com/group/artists/forum/topics/artists-books...

Why do many artists (and readers) find digital works somehow unsatsifying?

I think it depends alot on the way the digital work is displayed/viewed. The physical way the viewer interacts with the digital work, how, where and when impacts significantly on the satisfaction of the experience.

[Eleanor Dare]

Perhaps I should also be asking why certain analogue books fail to engage (or 'satisfy') - even if their content may be subjectively interesting, there are certain textures, layouts, smells, colours, typefaces that fail to connect to me somehow - do other people experience this? Are these failures related to the same factors in digital contexts? Perhaps Abigail, what you say all boils down to design, regardless of the medium. In which case these really are differences in degree and not significant differences in kind, between the analogue and the digital?

[Abigail Thomas]

Yes, perhaps you are right. It is certainly true that there are artists' books which fail to interest me, sometimes it is just down to the cover (never judge a book by its cover...) the colour of it, the title, the design which would fail to interest me be it analogue or digital, but (I dont mean to appear against the digital here) I think I am also far more likely to TRY to engage with the book (even if I dont like the look of it at first glance) if it is analogue. The digital feels ephemeral to me and so if it does not interest me at first glance I will not try to engage. Does that make sense to anyone else?

[amandine]

I am a photographer using digital camera and printing on an Epson. I also make artist's books (anpfotos.com). I don't understand what people are saying .. feel? touch? What people need to do is learn how to use Photoshop or other programs. The beauty of digital printing is that you can print on any kind of "stuff" (including whatever you want). Take a look at Dorthy Simpson Krause book "book and Art: handcrafting artist's books". Maybe you haven't looked at any digitally made books yet ... it's a brand new world out there and you shouldn't be afraid of it ...

[Eleanor Dare]

Hello Amandine, thanks for your reply, your work sounds interesting and you also sound very passionate and inspired by the possibilities of digital processes. What Abigial and I have been discussing is another way in which artists can engage with computers - beyond their ability to manipulate or print images. When I talk about digital books I mean books that exist in programming code and may only be availabe on a computer screen (though my work is both analogue and digital). Many artists have told me that the absence of touch, as they preceive it, is a core failing of such works - and in a sense your reply reinforces that, as you also emphasise the materiality of the surfaces you choose to print on - how would you feel if your work was never printed, but was instead present in a digital book or web space - would that matter to you or would you also miss the ability to hold, touch and 'own' your works?
Eleanor

[amandine]

I am sorry I don't really see the problem in the same light. As far as photo books are concerned they will become more artist's books if they want to be sold as "objects". The beauty of using a computer is that it allows for a different kind of experience (I don't understand what you mean by programing). A lot of photographers for example present their pictures with sound, 3D, animation and interaction with the user. They use every level of complexity included in making artist's book. I tried adding sound to one of my project and I loved it. It involves the viewer in a different way. People are still using the old way of making pictures (salt, gums etc.) and others are using digital cameras. We have such a vast array of choices that the problem now is to create projects that will benefit the most of the way we decide to present them. We live an extraordinary time ...

[Eleanor Dare]

Hello Amandine, by programming (in the context of my own work) I mean programming computers using the languages they understand, to create things that may not always exist as objects or images, such as events and reactions that happen in a specific moment in time, things that are not objects. In some ways I am using the book as a conceptual entity, a performance, (I can cite Sophie Calle's current exhibition 'Talking to Strangers'as a similarly perfomative conception of textuality) an abstraction, many people do not like the apparent immateriality of this treatrment, My understanding of the book (and computing) is not always centred around images or therefore about 'viewers' (the word you use). The vast array of choices you mention is also a vast array of confusion, hype and idealisation of technology, what is important for me is to identify real differences in kind between technologies, not superficial differences in degree.....
Sorry if this confuses the discussion even more! And many thanks for your reply

[Abigail Thomas]

Hi Amandine,

We were not really commenting on photo-books, we are discussing the problems of computer based books, ones that never get printed, books made soley for viewing on a screen. I completely agree that we are living in exciting times where by we as artists have so many 'new' tools to play with, but there doesn still seem to be this antagonism towards digital art, dont you think?